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Post by cowgirl4life30 on Nov 8, 2005 21:50:53 GMT -5
I don't think the stop watch is a bad idea but the replay is stupid. Of course I can understand being mad if another guy rides 7.9 and scores higher than another guy but I am sure all the riders have had a gimme from time to time so that is why i say it's fair and part of the sport.
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Post by pbrbigfan on Nov 9, 2005 8:37:18 GMT -5
Hey, guess what - the commentators made up the term "giving the benefit of the doubt". The judges are trying their best to get everything as precise and correct as they can but they are human. A judge isn't just going to decide "I think I'll go ahead and mark him because he was close". Cody Custer's wife said he goes home and watches the taped events and analyzes the close calls to see what could have been done differently. He knows there are some calls that get missed and he is very hard on himself in those cases. Cody C. with the help of Cody L. has worked hard to improve the judging program over the last few years and I feel it has come a long way. They still don't catch everything but it is reality that everything won't get caught. There are no perfectly called baseball, basketball or football games. As long there is the human aspect of sports, that's how it's going to be because humans aren't perfect.
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Post by CThrash13 on Nov 9, 2005 9:10:01 GMT -5
There is not one reason replay shouldn't be used in bull riding. I don't care about slowing things down. I care about getting the calls correct, and that's all that should matter.
If the riders make it 8 seconds, then they should get a score. If they make it 7.9, they shouldn't get a score. Replay is the only thing that will ever decide that.
If Marchi would have won the world title for staying on 7.7 and getting a score, I would have been highly ticked off. Especially since Justin hung off the side of his bull for 3 seconds and made it the full 8 seconds.
The people who say replay is stupid are just a little too naive about everything. Do you want the calls to be right or wrong? It isn't that hard to implement replay to get the calls right. It's not a knock on judges or time keepers, it's just the fair way to do things.
It's worked just fine for the NFL the way I see it. The game is called much better now than it was prior to replay.
Some people don't want to see any change in the PBR. You people need to get a grip and realize that changes need to be made to get things right.
I am 110% for instant replay in bull riding.
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Post by csb on Nov 9, 2005 9:46:16 GMT -5
Hey, guess what - the commentators made up the term "giving the benefit of the doubt". The judges are trying their best to get everything as precise and correct as they can but they are human. A judge isn't just going to decide "I think I'll go ahead and mark him because he was close". Cody Custer's wife said he goes home and watches the taped events and analyzes the close calls to see what could have been done differently. He knows there are some calls that get missed and he is very hard on himself in those cases. Cody C. with the help of Cody L. has worked hard to improve the judging program over the last few years and I feel it has come a long way. They still don't catch everything but it is reality that everything won't get caught. There are no perfectly called baseball, basketball or football games. As long there is the human aspect of sports, that's how it's going to be because humans aren't perfect. This is true. But if you give Howard, Donald, Dean, Monty etc. a watch plus Cody C's or Cody L's, youre going to be that much more accurate. |
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Post by WI8SecFan on Nov 9, 2005 10:21:05 GMT -5
Chris Shivers was asked about this exact issue in a Q&A session he did for fans. He said that Cody Custer was the most honest and respected man he had ever met and because of that there was no one else that he would rather see in his place. If Cody makes the call he believes that it is always the best that any judge could have made. He also said that he knows that Cody will do everything he possibly can to make the right call and is usually more upset then the rider is if it later comes into question that he may have made the wrong call. All of the judges are voted to be there and all of them have been on the back of a bull at one point. He did not feel that replay was necessary for the sport. They are the best at what they do but in the end are nothing but human. The human error is part of the sport. Let’s face it any sport that relies on human scoring is going to have some questionable calls. I honestly do not think that replay is a good idea. Where do you draw the line? Do you review every ride looking for infractions? Every close ride? Would someone have to request the rule like football? Would you also be rejudging the scoring or just the infractions? I just do not think that it would be consistent or it would take away from the excitement.
I do think though that there should be more then one judge with a stop watch. One from each perspective as there are certain angles that may be difficult for a back judge to see. However, they should only go to the second judges watch when the length of the ride is disputed and should not be used or averaged on every ride. The PRCA uses a similar 2 watch system that works well.
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Post by CThrash13 on Nov 9, 2005 11:16:46 GMT -5
The replay should just be used for questions on possible rider touches and 8 second disputes. I don't think it's needed for anything else. Those are the two big whammys..  |
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Post by tenesseerustler on Nov 9, 2005 15:25:52 GMT -5
I think or believe the point trying to be made is the fact that human error is gonna happen and why not correct it. These guys are all friends they have an admiration for one another but i feel the guys would rather get it right than not. this year there were i say at least 15 rides that got scores that should not have most notably LJ Jenkins sitting on the ground with the bull rope in hand. If cody wants to get the politics out of the sport he should start with replay.
If a guy does not ride and it is subjected to replay the right call will be made. Why should anybody be given a score if it was not a legit ride. We on here are all amatures and have never judged a pbr event and we as fans can point out rides and no rides only after the benifit of replay, i feel the judges should be given every chance to make the right call. Why question if it is human error when it could all be solved in 10 seconds with replay.
No question replay should be used. To Cody T if they can change a rider score 8 rides later and give a half a point can't they look at the replay 2 rides later and say he did not stay on the bull the full 8 no score and take it away and not slow anything down. I agree with you a 100%.
CSB: Stop watches will not solve the problem cause if the benefit of the doubt comes into effect then what good is it. You have to have a replay judge who sits down on the floor where the oln cameras are and watch for any questionable calls judge it come back with a decision and that is final.
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Post by tenesseerustler on Nov 9, 2005 15:33:15 GMT -5
I don't think the stop watch is a bad idea but the replay is stupid. Of course I can understand being mad if another guy rides 7.9 and scores higher than another guy but I am sure all the riders have had a gimme from time to time so that is why i say it's fair and part of the sport. Why should mediocridy be rewarded. If he does not ride, he should be scoreless bottom line no if ands or buts, not rewarded. It can be resolved in a timely manner and it would stop threads just like this. There is no reason for us to discuss guys who rode, guys who got the benefit of the doubt and those who did not ride. |
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Post by csb on Nov 9, 2005 15:56:18 GMT -5
We have given to stopwatches to each judge in the past at our bull riding, and we had a lot of success with it. Dont knock it until you try it.
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Post by RodeoHellBilly on Nov 9, 2005 17:53:02 GMT -5
I guess my words needed to be precise to be understood. I guess out of everyone you had the hardest dealing with my comments. What i was trying to say was the fact that a good ride does not consist of side saddling, holding on to the end of the rope after you have been bucked off and still get scored. This is BULLRIDING so yes, i understand they cant stayed center. All you need to do is think outside the box. In any case i hope you understood that. Sorry that I misunderstood, I was extremely tired when I read that, I slept all of about 4 hours the entire time I was in Vegas, there was no need to be rude though. Karen TO CSB: I agree, how come all of the sudden we have these calls, You seem to be fairly knowledgeable but remember when Guillerme March got caught, i dont think it is all of sudden but i do feel they chose to make a statement a little to late. |
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Post by CThrash13 on Nov 10, 2005 13:51:39 GMT -5
I do want to make the point that I feel Cody Custer is awesome at his job. He is probably the right man for the current job. I have nothing against him. But there is no reason he shouldn't want replay as well. If I was him, I would definitely want it.
It's just easier to get things 100% correct with replay, and that's the way it should be.
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zac009
Amateur
keeping the steel to the hide
Posts: 9
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Post by zac009 on Nov 10, 2005 17:49:09 GMT -5
dont know if anybody already said this or not but i did'nt feel like reading all the post of opinios and what not. 1st the clock that we all see on TV is not the actual time its usually a couple of 100th off, there could be 7.9 rides that could actually be 8 sec rides. 2nd the watch dont start till the bulls front hoves hit the ground wich could be right there or 20 feet out if you'r riding just a dream! several judges have stopwatches the arena judes that score the ride, cody custer and lamberts. custer or lambers is final call.
Point im trying to make you cant make a call from watching the clock on you'r TV set!!! SO GET OFF CUSTERS AND LAMBERTS CASE!!
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Post by longhorne on Nov 10, 2005 23:09:45 GMT -5
I agree with CSB that having several stop watches would resolve alot of problems. As far as the instant replay goes it could get out of hand like what was stated prior to this post where do you draw a line? It dosent matter what you do there is still going to be somebody complaining. You also need to factor in the natural human delay unless you can get a quick draw on pushing stop watch buttons your never going to get more then a tenth of a second close to what the actual time may be.
I think that alot of people on here need to take a shot at judging a couple of time's it will open your eye's. I have personally never judged a pbr or prca rodeo but have judged from junior rodeo's to big ammy rodeo's. I can tell you from experience it's not easy looking at a friend of your's and telling them that they slapped the bull or something to that extent and they wont be getting a check. What it all boils down to is being fair.
That's my two cents for now
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Reride
Challenger Tour
Posts: 212
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Post by Reride on Nov 18, 2005 12:25:12 GMT -5
I Besides if we had replay and all the calls are fair, most fans would find something else to complain about. The way it's done now is part of the sport and usually if it's questionable it goes to the rider and that's the way it should be. The true shame of it is that you are right. There will always be something to grumble about. I still predict that replay will be coming. It's inevitable with so much money on the line these days. |
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Post by brianranse on Dec 10, 2005 6:09:12 GMT -5
dont know if anybody already said this or not but i did'nt feel like reading all the post of opinios and what not. 1st the clock that we all see on TV is not the actual time its usually a couple of 100th off, there could be 7.9 rides that could actually be 8 sec rides. 2nd the watch dont start till the bulls front hoves hit the ground wich could be right there or 20 feet out if you'r riding just a dream! several judges have stopwatches the arena judes that score the ride, cody custer and lamberts. custer or lambers is final call.
Point im trying to make you cant make a call from watching the clock on you'r TV set!!! SO GET OFF CUSTERS AND LAMBERTS CASE!!
Just a note that the clock you see on telly is limked by the same button that CC/CL use as a back judge... There is two buttons one on each side of the chutes.... Times are pretty acurate.....
Football is to slow becuase of all the stop start if you do that to bullriding.. the fans wont be entertained which they want to be... There however may be a way to work it in si the action doesnt stop...
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